Well documented collection of historical facts. Nicely laid out into periods of time. Scans very clear and easy to read as the website owner has diagnosed the text at great length to create a true, easy to read version with lots of clickable links which take you to very informative sites. Great work has to be applauded to the writer for the amount of work taken to produce this site. Excellent teaching aid for anyone wishing to study what went on early Naval times.
Very interesting.
My grandad was chief electric charge man in the Dockyard. During WW2 he was responsible for the electric cables going to the ships when they docked.
When Wiley painted the famous picture of the scene at Trafalgaŕas viewed from Nelson’s cabin my grandad did tge lighting for it and met the painter making his finishing touches.
I woukd like to find out more about him as he died when I was almost 2 years old.
He was Allan William James Dyer and he died in October 1962.
Thank you for all your hard work preserving our local history.
Jackie Morgan née Dyer
Hello Ray – many thanks indeed for making this brilliant collection of documents available on line. I have a detailed question re. the proportion of Ordnance for HMS Dreadnaught, the year is shown as 1712/3 … do you happen to know what this means or how to interpret it? Also, do you believe these ‘Proportion’ documents were only used between the stores and the ship or were they sent either to London or received from London? My suspicion is that they were confined to Portsmouth but really I have no idea. Many thanks – Fraser
Upon waking this morning, it occurred to me that the ‘split’ years, such as 1712/3 or 1714/5, could relate to financial years. The internet tells me that the Julian Calendar at this time had financial years ending on Lady Day, 25 March. I see that the Proportion inventories are signed by senior members of the Board but I remain unsure whether these sheets were passed to or from the Tower. Fraser
“the English legal year – used for legal, financial and other civil purposes – had for centuries begun on 25 March, or Lady Day. Thus, for example, 24 March 1707 was immediately followed by 25 March 1708, while the day following 31 December 1708 was 1 January 1708”. Hence a date of 13 March 1712/3 was a way of hedging between the Julian calendar (1712) and the Gregorian (1713). This confusion was resolved by the Calendar (New Style) Act 1750. Fraser
Hi Fraser,
Thank you for taking the time to write to me. It is good to know that there is someone out there who shares my fascination with these documents.
It seems you have answered your own question regarding the dates in January, February and March; yes it was the coming together of the two calendars that caused the confusing method of writing the year. It took me some time to sort this out myself.
The proportion of Ordnance for Dreadnaught was from The Tower to John Hooper, the storekeeper are Portsmouth, and dictates the Ordnance to be supplied to the ship to prepare her for service.
You will see similar documents that record the remaining ordnance on an incoming ship, and the new stores supplied: e.g. 17071108-Indent-Proportion-of-Ordnance-for-HMS-Cruizer.
I will consider using your words to explain the date issue.
Thanks Ray – that looks good. Reading this material, especially the glossary, is helping me prepare for a visit to the Historic Dockyard. I went on a school trip in, errr, 1973 so it’s about time I went back! I’ve also watched a superb 25 minute animation on YouTube (animagraffs) that explains all the key parts and functions of HMS Victory using excellent graphics – well worth a view. Regards – Fraser
I have watched that, it is excellent. To do the Dockyard justice you will need a few days. The Mary Rose museum is breath-taking but there is also HMS Warrior, the submarine Museum in Gosport and the Explosion museum, also here in Gosport. There is a water bus to get you from Portsmouth to Gosport.
Let me know if you want a guide.
21 responses to “Discussion”
Well documented collection of historical facts. Nicely laid out into periods of time. Scans very clear and easy to read as the website owner has diagnosed the text at great length to create a true, easy to read version with lots of clickable links which take you to very informative sites. Great work has to be applauded to the writer for the amount of work taken to produce this site. Excellent teaching aid for anyone wishing to study what went on early Naval times.
Thanks for your kind comments Mike. Pass on the good news please.
It such a nice the effort Ray:-)
Thanks Ever
This is a wonderful resource, laid out in a very clear and usable way. Well done on setting all this up. Great work 🙂
Thank you for your kind comment.
Thanks for making these documents available and your work in transcribing them. I have shared news on my ResearchPress facebook page. David
Thanks David.
Excellent and a valuable contribution.
May I pass it on to the Ordnance Society for inclusion in our links please?
https://ordnancesociety.org.uk/
Please do. My intent is that these documents be available to as many people as possible.
Very interesting.
My grandad was chief electric charge man in the Dockyard. During WW2 he was responsible for the electric cables going to the ships when they docked.
When Wiley painted the famous picture of the scene at Trafalgaŕas viewed from Nelson’s cabin my grandad did tge lighting for it and met the painter making his finishing touches.
I woukd like to find out more about him as he died when I was almost 2 years old.
He was Allan William James Dyer and he died in October 1962.
Thank you for all your hard work preserving our local history.
Jackie Morgan née Dyer
Would you interested in some old photographs of the garrison church at HMS Sultan and a few more details to add about the people who were there?
That would be great. I can add your photos and commentary to the site. you can mail the data to: webmaster@gosportshistory.co.uk
Hello Ray – many thanks indeed for making this brilliant collection of documents available on line. I have a detailed question re. the proportion of Ordnance for HMS Dreadnaught, the year is shown as 1712/3 … do you happen to know what this means or how to interpret it? Also, do you believe these ‘Proportion’ documents were only used between the stores and the ship or were they sent either to London or received from London? My suspicion is that they were confined to Portsmouth but really I have no idea. Many thanks – Fraser
Upon waking this morning, it occurred to me that the ‘split’ years, such as 1712/3 or 1714/5, could relate to financial years. The internet tells me that the Julian Calendar at this time had financial years ending on Lady Day, 25 March. I see that the Proportion inventories are signed by senior members of the Board but I remain unsure whether these sheets were passed to or from the Tower. Fraser
“the English legal year – used for legal, financial and other civil purposes – had for centuries begun on 25 March, or Lady Day. Thus, for example, 24 March 1707 was immediately followed by 25 March 1708, while the day following 31 December 1708 was 1 January 1708”. Hence a date of 13 March 1712/3 was a way of hedging between the Julian calendar (1712) and the Gregorian (1713). This confusion was resolved by the Calendar (New Style) Act 1750. Fraser
Hi Fraser,
Thank you for taking the time to write to me. It is good to know that there is someone out there who shares my fascination with these documents.
It seems you have answered your own question regarding the dates in January, February and March; yes it was the coming together of the two calendars that caused the confusing method of writing the year. It took me some time to sort this out myself.
The proportion of Ordnance for Dreadnaught was from The Tower to John Hooper, the storekeeper are Portsmouth, and dictates the Ordnance to be supplied to the ship to prepare her for service.
You will see similar documents that record the remaining ordnance on an incoming ship, and the new stores supplied: e.g. 17071108-Indent-Proportion-of-Ordnance-for-HMS-Cruizer.
I will consider using your words to explain the date issue.
P.S. Take a look at 17040224 musquetts from Charles Haro fuzileers
I have added some words about the calendars.
Thanks Ray – that looks good. Reading this material, especially the glossary, is helping me prepare for a visit to the Historic Dockyard. I went on a school trip in, errr, 1973 so it’s about time I went back! I’ve also watched a superb 25 minute animation on YouTube (animagraffs) that explains all the key parts and functions of HMS Victory using excellent graphics – well worth a view. Regards – Fraser
I have watched that, it is excellent. To do the Dockyard justice you will need a few days. The Mary Rose museum is breath-taking but there is also HMS Warrior, the submarine Museum in Gosport and the Explosion museum, also here in Gosport. There is a water bus to get you from Portsmouth to Gosport.
Let me know if you want a guide.
Thank you again Ray. I’ll contact you via direct email. Cheers – Fraser